The Fiat parts - which cars/models?

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The Fiat parts - which cars/models?

Postby elbeeJ86 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:24 pm

Hello all,

I've been having a look at the rules this week (then having a look through eBay!) and a few old posts on here, and, well, I'm a bit lost....

So what I'm looking for is some sort of list of what models have the parts I would need/be allowed to use in a new 750F. I had originally thought I could buy a Seicento 1.1 Sporting and be done, but I read in one post the 'right head' is actually more common on a 1.2 engine. The gearbox also seems a bit vague, just "standard five speed Fiat transaxle".

I'm more concerned at this stage with avoiding buying something I can't actually use, rather than looking for the ultimate, if that makes sense.

Are there any useful lists etc. on the Fiat bits? Or even a pdf or something on here that I should have already found?!

Thank you in advance.
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Re: The Fiat parts - which cars/models?

Postby F1300Tony » Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:05 am

Welcome.
Going with the transverse option, you can use any standard Fiat gearbox/diff unit. The trick is to get one with the right final drive ratio (4.07:1), and then the optimum ratios. Before buying anything I strongly suggest you go to a race meeting and talk to people and see the various options. People will tell you everything until you get quick, then it might start being the wrong thing! Definitely look at one of the Falcons as this is the simplest way, the gearbox is bolted to the engine without an adaptor plate. I didn't have too much trouble gathering the ratios of the different gearboxes from Google, but I did miss one. From this you can work out speeds/revs. Generally these engines work from 5200 to 7000rpm and some people get power way beyond that. Scrapyards are still a viable option to buy engines and gearboxes, and at least you get to do some basis external checking.
You will need a 108 head, the last three numbers of the part number. Having been made over many years in a variety of locations, these engines vary and a choice had to be made on one head to level the playing field. The other differences include two different pitch cam belts, and at least two differing crankshafts.
You will also need driveshafts, hubs, etc. Again the driveshafts come in a good variety of lengths which is handy.
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Re: The Fiat parts - which cars/models?

Postby Martin Kemp » Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:31 pm

The best gearbox that mates directly onto the FIRE engine is the one fitted to the Grande Punto 1.2 or 1.4 8V models.
The have the 4.07:1 final drive and the lowest 5th gear ratio.
Now we are allowed to use a special 1:1 5th gear set and if you use this then it won 't matter what the original 5th gear is - but the 4.07:1 final drive is a must.
The Falcons use Punto Mk 2 driveshafts which are angled back a few inches to help the weight distribution and the engine and gearbox are angled forward at 45 degrees to get the driveshaft height correct.

I have put a table below of the standard ratios for the FIAT boxes and a Race Reliant box for comparison. Unfortunately the columns no longer line up properly but you should be able to space them out to get the correct result.

Reliant Race ratios Seicento 899 Seicento sporting & Punto 55 Punto 60 Punto 16v Punto sporting Grande Punto
3.909 3.909 3.909 3.909 3.909 3.909
2.46 2.05 2.158 2.158 2.158 2.158 2.158
1.4 1.344 1.48 1.48 1.48 1.48 1.48
1.18 0.977 1.121 1.121 1.121 1.121 1.121
1 0.837 0.902 0.902 0.897 0.872 0.921

Martin

Final Drive 4.2 4.071 3.867 3.563 3.733 4.071 4.071
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Re: The Fiat parts - which cars/models?

Postby pbove » Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:16 pm

Hi,

Good to hear that you're thinking of joining us! It sounds as though you're planning to build your own car, any details that you can share at this time?

Peter
Race car....... the clue is in the name, if it's not racing then it's just a car.
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Re: The Fiat parts - which cars/models?

Postby elbeeJ86 » Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:57 am

Thanks for the quick replies.

I think we are better off looking at parts from scrap yards, rather than buying a complete car then.

We've just started to have a look at the rules. I think the last time I read them with particular depth it was still live axle only! Is the transaxle option encouraging more people to build cars?

I think coming to see some cars for a closer look is a good idea. I believe 750F is doing Rockingham in September, I think we'll try and pop up on the Saturday.
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Re: The Fiat parts - which cars/models?

Postby pbove » Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:48 pm

Yes, there are quite a few trannies now, mostly Falcons (I think there are now five competing) and Tony also built the Batten as a tranny which won the championship in 2014 and Ulrich converted his ADR to a transverse engine. The regulations haven't really change very much apart from a minimum weight and some minor clarifications aimed at trying to make the regs more easily understood (although there is still work to do in this respect).

You'll be most welcome at Rockingham and, as it is a two day meeting, I'm sure that there will be plenty of time to look at cars and chat to people.

Ebay is also a very good source of second hand parts and some of the Fiat parts sellers now quote the all important head number - even if they don't you can always ask them to check.

Peter
Race car....... the clue is in the name, if it's not racing then it's just a car.
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Re: The Fiat parts - which cars/models?

Postby F1300Tony » Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:04 am

Thanks for the mention Peter, but I have to put the record straight regarding the word 'built'. I designed Batten 3, but it was built by Paul Albone. The exceptions to that is that Paul devised the gear linkage, and I made the wing, endplates and two inlet manifolds.
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